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As you guys may know, I’m a Weight Watcher Insider. That basically means I get to annoy them with my pesky little questions while getting invited to fun Weight Watcher events. ;)

In all seriousness, ever since the release of the new PointsPlus program I’ve been a bit confused while calculating PointsPlus for my recipes. I’m not officially following the program but I still like to calculate for my own knowledge and I figure it would give me some practice for when I get back on the program after baby.

Since I’m not attending meetings, I don’t have a Leader I could chat with. So I decided to shoot them the following question…

As a Weight Watchers member who LOVES to cook, I have a few questions regarding the new PointsPlus and recipes. I noticed when I begin to enter ingredients into the recipe builder that recipes with a majority of "free" fruits and vegetables increase in PointsPlus value fairly quickly. For example, I recently made a salad using, (Click here for my Citrus Spinach Salad with Pomegranates and Walnuts)

  • 1 Ruby Red grapefruit,
  • 1 Orange,
  • 1 1/2 cups of raw spinach leaves,
  • 1 oz (28g) Pomegranate, and
  • 1/2 oz (14g) Walnuts

As you can see, the recipe is all fruits and vegetables except for the walnuts. However, when I enter the recipe in eTools I get a value of 8 PointsPlus which seems awfully high for a salad composed of "free" ingredients. Fellow members recommended I simply skip the fruits and veggies and only count the walnuts. Is that the official Weight Watchers position? I understand there is a level of common sense needed when approaching the plan but the difference in points between just the walnuts compared to nutritional information of the recipe as a whole is a substantial 5 PointsPlus.

How does Weight Watchers advise point calculations for recipe that contain fruit and vegetables? What is the best approach and are their any best practices?

This is the response I was given..

Just as we’ve always done with 0 PointsPlus value vegetables, 0 PointsPlus value fresh fruits contribute toward the total PointsPlus values of a recipe, whether it’s a Weight Watchers recipe or one you build yourself in the Recipe Builder.

The technical explanation is that because recipes are calculated based on the total grams of fat, fiber, protein and carbs for all their ingredients. As one poster on the Message Boards, DANI_THE_GECKO, wisely points out: “The recipe builder only knows that you input nutritional information. It does not know if it’s fruit, green beans or heavy cream.”

But why do we do it this way? There are a couple of very good reasons why we count fruits and veggies in our recipes:

• Our recipes often appear in articles and magazines nationally, so we need to provide the calories and nutrient content, as many recipes published elsewhere do.

• Once vegetables and fruit are elements in a prepared recipe, the experience of eating them changes. Few people overeat carrots — but they might overeat carrot cake.

If your “recipe” is truly just a few pieces of fruit, then you might want to record it in your Tracker as separate items or as a “meal” — the latter looks at each item separately and then adds up all the PointsPlus values. Because all the items have 0 PointsPlus values, the total will also be zero.

This really wasn’t the response I was looking for. I kind of understand WHY it’s happening. I’m more interested in what Weight Watchers recommends but the response did shed some light for me on the subject.

I have not yet decided how I will "count" these types of recipes on PointsPlus. On the old plan I would have have counted 1 point for each fruit–which would give me 3–plus the walnuts–2–which would give me a total of 5 points. Only 1 point off from the 6 I get when I use the nutritional information for the points calculation.

The thing that intrigues me the most about this particular PointsPlus conundrum is that I thought the shift to the new formula would favor more whole food and non-processed choices but when I started to take a closer at PointsPlus base purely on nutritional information I see some discrepancies. For example, the nutritional profile of the salad I listed above is…

Calories: 300 Fat: 10 Fiber: 10 Protein: 7 Carb: 53

The nutritional profile for 2 twinkies is according to CalorieKing is….

Calories: 300 Fat: 9 Fiber: 0 Protien: 2 Carb: 54

Both give me 8 PointsPlus, if my calculations are correct. Now of course, common sense says the salad is a much better choice but I thought the new points were suppose to help alleviate this kind of point manipulation. This leads me to believe that counting the fruit and veggies in a recipe is not recommended since they are free but I’m just not sure.

With the old plan I never got such a vast difference in points if I included the nutritional information for "free" or low point ingredients. At most the difference would be 1-2 points and I’d just always round up trying not to cheat the system. But the new plan seems to have more and greater discrepancies.

I’m really NOT trying to pick on the new PointsPlus program. That’s not my intention at all. I just like to fully understand the program and points before I dive in come April and I’m honestly curious. With the old plan I never experienced this level of confusion and I think it’s just because most of the point discrepancies encountered were so minor.

I’m really curious what other members are doing and what their experience is with the new plan. I am planning on attending meetings and embracing the new plan post-baby, so any insights are welcome. I’d like to really have a good handle on PointsPlus so it’s not overwhelming when I’m nursing a newborn and preparing to host a conference!

Any thoughts? Best practices?

Full Disclosure: As a Weight Watcher’s Insider, Weight Watchers provides me with access to products and information. As always, any thoughts and opinions expressed in this post are my own. I do not represent Weight Watchers in any way, I’m just a lifetime member. Points and PointsPlus are both registered trademarks of Weight Watchers.

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  • Lynn

    I have not used the recipe builder in WW, I guess what I have done was not count any fruits or vegetables in the recipe but only counted those things that had a points plus value. Hmmm. Maybe this is NOT what I should do?

  • http://www.courtneywalsh.typepad.com Courtney

    I have no insight but I wanted to say that the technical side of the new program is what caused me to set WW on the shelf for a bit and try something new. When you’ve done WW before, you kind of memorize things, and relearning everything again absolutely daunted me on every level.

    I am hoping to find the energy to tackle it again, but it is completely overwhelming to me. I will be following this thread to see what insight people have for you!

  • http://www.lynnsweigh.blogspot.com Lynn Haraldson

    Wow, Roni, GREAT question(s). I’ve been so darn confused these last few months. What I do when a simple carb isn’t involved (such as bread, crackers) is count the old Points way and throw in Points for the fruit or I go with the total nutritional info and plug it in.

    The Twinkie thing horrified me. Seriously? WW is “allowing” a Twinkie to be the same PointsPlus as your healthy salad? I really don’t that, and I’m sure many WWers are thinking the same thing. The company really needs to step up and explain this more thoroughly.

    Very important blog. Thanks for posting it. I’m sharing it on my FB page.

  • http://idoappalachia.blogspot.com K

    I’ve been curious about this too, having just re-joined WW in January. What I’ve been doing is counting the ingredients separately for one-serving things like smoothies, salads, etc. but adding them in the recipe builder for multiple-serving recipes. I don’t know why exaclty I do it this way, but it makes sense to me somehow!

  • http://ronisweigh.com roni

    No K, I get that. It makes sense as the NI would be spread across the servings kind of evening it out. So in the case of this salad (on serving) you would just count the walnuts.

  • Erica

    If I’m not drastically changing the form (making a cake) I don’t include the fruits and veggies in calculations.  For salads and smoothies I add each thing to my tracker by itself. 

  • Lisa

    I just started WW and PointsPlus 2 weeks ago and agree with you on this. It seems very illogical to count all the fruits and vegetables towards the points in the case of the recipe you noted.

    I think that you would be fine in your site providing the full nutritional information using all the ingredients and then providing a PPV (PointsPlus Value that was based on just the nuts).

    However for a casserole or other dish that included more non-free ingredients, those should probably include the veges and fruits. A little bit (or even a lot) of broccoli or mushroom in a casserole isn’t going to up the points by enough to matter anyway. I think that is WW’s point. They obviously didn’t read your recipe. You basically made a mixture of free items in their normal free state and added walnuts. If you had eaten everything separate, you would have only counted the nuts.

    Mark your recipes with an *** if you only count the non-free foods in the PPV versus ones that count everything. Your readers will appreciate it! And will know how much better that citrus salad is than the 2 twinkies.

  • Susan

    As a follower of the old WW program and now a follower of the new PointsPlus program, I have to say I prefer the new PP program better. Regarding recipies with fruit and vegetables, I usually omit them in my recipie calculator and just input the other ingredients, that way, hopefully, I am staying true to my actual points consumed. I must say I did not like the new PP program initially, but stuck it out for 3 weeks and am now loving it and have broken through plateaus. Plus I have increased my intake of fruits and vegetables, leaving me more satisfied than a processed snack. The best part is that if I’ve blown all my points away by the middle of the day, like on a weekend, I can still eat vegetables and fruits to tide me by until the next day when I can start afresh.

  • sherijung

    My impression of what WW is saying, is that at the end of the day, a calorie is still a calorie, and you could down ALOT of calories by making a smoothie, even though it’s mostly fruit. But for a snack, you’d be unlikely to sit there and eat 2 cups of strawberries, a banana, and some blueberries. You’d probably stop at just the banana, right?

    But how could the twinkies and your salad be the same points value, with the big difference in fiber and protein between the two? That doesn’t seem right. Isn’t the new system supposed to reward protein?

  • Susan

    Sorry, didn’t do a spell check-I meant “recipes” :-)

  • Tracy

    Our WW leader says that 0+0 does not always equal 0. So, if you have one piece of fruit in a sitting then it is zero…but if you have three, there will be some points there. I would say you need to count the fruit, just because there is so much of it in the recipe.

  • Reecca Foxworth

    You asked for insight, so here’s some for ya…

    Fruits are technically, when calculated by WW calculations, NOT zero points. Nope. They have calories. They have nutrients.

    BUT, WW MADE them 0 points. For us. So we would eat more of them. So we would choose them over 100 calorie packs and granola bars.

    Over and over in the new literature they remind us: We MADE fruit zero points for you. Eat it sensibly. If you find that you’re not losing weight for a week or two, consider the possibility that you may be overeating (they said “gorging on” ) fruit. And cut back in the coming week. If overeating fruit was the problem, your weight loss should resume.

    In this weeks mini-magazine from the meetings, it even talks about fruit portion distortion: for example, 1/2 cup is a serving of grapes, but most people eat 3/4 of a cup. Oh.

    So…in summary, fruit is the ONE area where, instead of a hard and fast rule, you have to use common sense. I can look at your recipe and say I would count the fruits and veggies as zero, then just count the walnuts. If, by doing so a few times a week, my weight was affected…well, then, I’d give it a higher points value when I counted it.

    That’s my two cents…

  • http://www.loserforlife.com Marisa @ Loser for Life

    Great post, Roni! I’ve been confused about the same issue! I tend to just go with the number I get in the Recipe Builder for the recipes that I create or input. The thing that gets me though is not EVERYONE that is a WW member has access to eTools/Recipe Builder. Only the Monthy Pass or online members have it, so what do the other members do? Count things separately, right? I’m sure those members are plenty successful with their tracking method, so I guess the debate continues!!! What probably matters the most is consistency in whichever way we choose to put recipes together. If we count separately, we should stick with that consistently and same goes for Recipe Builder.

  • LeslieG

    This is the biggest issues that’s become a sticking point in mtgs. One mtg we really beat it to death and even then I wasn’t sure. I agree with you that if the pt is to encourage fruits/veggies, then including their nutritional info in the PtsPlus count for recipes contradicts that. Our leader’s response was to sort of shrug and tell us we didn’t get overweight eating oranges so don’t worry too much. Use common sense, she says. True, but it still leaves a lot fuzzy.

    I find the response you got amusing. Taking your salad recipe for example, if you toss everything together, that’s supposed to be a different _experience_ than eating a grapefruit, orange, pomegrante, spinach, and walnuts separately? What if I put them in separate little piles on a plate and alternate bites of each? Come on, how is that a different experience from a salad?!!

    The Weight Watchers explanations don’t make sense to me — the first time that’s happened to me with WW. So when I calculate recipes, I leave fruits and veggies out.

  • http://www.nmburlesonweightloss.blogspot.com Natalia

    See I don’t think it is…I think the salad would be 3 because all you would count is the walnuts..and of course dressing. So it would make you look at the twinkies and say, oh that’s not worth it. Where as before counting the fruit, the twinkies might be more appealing because they are the same points as a salad. …

    I’m not sure that I like the new program…but if I were eating that salad the fruits and veggies would be 0!

  • LeslieG

    Just for fun, I went to the online tracker and looked up the PtsPlus for “fruit cup, restaurant type.” 1 small cup, 6 oz. = 0 pts+ And if I change it to 6 servings? Still 0 Pts+

    What if I eat 5 apples with my lunch? 0 Pts+. What about 250? Still 0 Pts+.

    That’s different from what happens if I eat some other things, where one serving is, say, 1 Pts+ but two servings are, say, 3 Pts+

    OK OK, it’s a computer and doesn’t know. And I don’t think anyone at WW, mtg leaders or administrators, is being disingenuous, but there’s a definite bit of illogic and contradiction-ness here.

  • jen

    perhaps as in anything new, there needs to be some tweaking. i also think that if you think really really hard, i am sure that there were some choices that were rich in fat and sugar were equal in points to a choice that was “healthy.”

    maybe if you actually attended meetings and were seriously doing the program, you would understand it more? maybe your leader could investigate it more?

    with that being said….i have done both programs by weight watchers and have found the points plus to be better for ME. i am making wiser choices than in the past.

    while i follow this plan, i dont believe myself to be a dietician who is knowledgable in the ins and outs of food but i do believe in the program.

  • http://ronisweigh.com roni

    Jen – I can’t attend meetings pregnant which is why I asked them via email and started the conversation here on the blog. It’s really more out of curiosity than anything. When I do eat this salad how should I count it? What would Weight Watchers do? WWWWD? lol

    That’s really all I’m asking.

  • http://becomingatortoise.blogspot.com/ Julie

    Roni, honestly, I am not completely sold yet on the new approach. I know this might not be what people want to hear, and I continue to remain open minded to the new WW methods. Maybe I just have a “if it not broke, why fix it” mentality or maybe my brain is just hardwired to count a banana as 2 points. Nothing is “free” if you will, and I have run into these same issues when plugging recipes into the WW online tools. Its a bit un-nerving sometimes and I find a little misleading. My jury is still out!

  • http://nomorefatass.blogspot.com/ sugar

    I have no insight, I just joined a few weeks ago. I have personally been adding my ingredients separately.. so it figures it out for me. I would rather have too many points on my chart than not enough, if that makes sense.

  • Christie

    I’ve been using the PP program for about 6 weeks and I found that I really like it much more than the old points system. The banana thing alone makes me so happy!

    Here’s what I’ve been doing — if I make a recipe like a salad or smoothie that’s basically 1 serving for myself, I put them in the tracker as individual components (not recipe builder) and I would just count the things that are 0 points. I eat a lot of smoothies and that’s how I count them. However, if I make a pot of soup, a casserole, or something like that, I put it in recipe builder and let it calculate the points for the entire recipe. I think the important thing is that you decide what you want to do for you (what helps you lose each week) and be consistent with it. I don’t think it supposed to be as hard as we sometimes make it :)

  • PJ

    I am loving the new plan. Something to remember is that on the new plan you get more daily points and more weekly points…49 up from 35. This kind of offsets the higher points in some foods. I know that doesn’t address your recipe issue but it is something to consider. I’m losing slowly but surely and feel like this plan is way more of a lifestyle that is guiding me towards a 100 calories worth of fruit vs 100 processed snack pack. If I can eat the fruit for free I’ll choose that over the snack any day.

  • jen

    i know that you are pregnant. i also understand the whole theory around the recipe builder and how it calculates points. recently, i made an all vegetable lasagne where you used zucchini as the noodles. it was all vegetable except for the cheese. i just counted the cheese. while i dont pretend to an expert on this, my guess is that you count the walnuts….everything else is free.

    if i remember, i will ask at my next meeting.

  • Holly

    First, I have to say that I think that was a crappy, vague answer that you got from WW. My WW leader has read emails from corporate that answered your question in a much less confusing way. I love WW, but I hate that they can’t seem to communicate answers efficiently!

    What my leader has said is that WW factored into your daily points allowance that you would be eating 5+ servings of fruit/veggies a day, plus they gave a little extra as padding. They are meant to be eaten and NOT counted!! If you were supposed to count them, they would have given you a higher daily points limit. However, if you put fruit in a smoothie, you may want to count it because it is easier to suck a piece of fruit down threw a straw than it is to eat it, and because you don’t get the same sensory experience as you would if you ate the fruit whole.

  • Jeri

    But that is the point , if you put it in the recipe builder it isn’t free , feels like a marketing ploy to me , they either count or they don’t , they can’t have it both ways !!

  • Aimee

    I just love your site and you, Roni! :)
    My two cents…I was also very resistant to the new program at first, but have come to love it and have lost about 1.3 a week for the last 8 weeks on it. The most significant change for me is that I have greatly increased my consumption of fruits and vegetables. I hit at least 5 servings almost every day, and I never did that before now. For no other reason than the O-point fruit, the program feels much easier, knowing that there is a O-point healthy, delicious snack whenever I may need it. I don’t think I’m overdoing it, as I don’t think I’ve had more than 2-3 servings of fruit a day, as I can only eat so much fruit (not so with so many other things! :))
    Also, somehow the new formula has “forced” me to eat not only more fruit and vegetables, but also more lean protein, and less carbs than I ever did before. I still work in whole grains as much as possible, but overall, my carb consumption is down. I was very surprised to see the calculation comparison with Twinkies, as on many other things, I have noticed a big difference. Most proteins are the same points as the old points system, whereas most carbs, are at least 1-2 pts. more per serving. I think perhaps the significant fat (although super healthy!) in walnuts may be at play?
    In terms of recipes, I don’t think fruit and vegetables should count any differently depending on the form. If they are 0 points if I eat them separately, it doesn’t make sense that they would be more if I eat them with other things. I input all other ingredients, but not fruit and vegetables. Not only have I had good losses consistently, but this absolutely feels sustainable for life, which is very big for me, so I’ll keep doing it that way. Just my two cents… :)

  • http://itallchanges.com Cynthia (It All Changes)

    The answer given by corporate was vague but this is what my leader told us.

    WW counts in 5 servings of fruit as zero. Above that you should count them. And as always if you notice your WL stalling you need to look at what you are eating and adjust.

    Also if it is just for you I’d just list it as a meal in the E-tools and save it as a meal. If I was making many servings I’d create a recipe.

    For each member the answer will be different. Just as some members can use their WPA and AP’s and lose while others gain. WL is personal and WW doesn’t have an exact answer for anything. I can’t eat all my WPA or I will gain.

    Hope that helps.

  • Katie

    I don’t count any free fruit or veggies. If I’m entering a recipe into Recipe Builder, I just don’t enter in the fruit or the veggies. That solves the Twinkie problem (although, there are always going to be things like that — a formula can only do so much).

    I don’t eat crazy amounts of fruit each day, though, so even not counting fruits and veggies in recipes doesn’t put me over the calories they’ve built in for fruits and veggies. “Let your weight loss be your guide” is definitely more important for PointsPlus than it was for Momentum.

    My math brain starts freaking out whenever I think about the discrepancies with the WW points system (wrap your brain around ordering a salad at a restaurant vs. making the salad yourself — huge difference in points because they only have the nutritional information from the restaurant, so EVERYTHING is counted). The thing is that any formula based system is going to have discrepancies, simply because it is based on a formula. The only way you can get past the discrepancies is to count calories, but that’s not that great of a solution because then you aren’t being encouraged to make healthier choices (i.e. the salad and Twinkies were the same calorie count). No system is perfect (Momentum certainly wasn’t!), so I just have to put the discrepancies out of my head and move forward. They haven’t seemed to affect my weight loss so far and that’s what really counts. :o)

  • Adina

    Roni, I’ve wondered a lot about this very issue but have “gone with the flow” and used the recipe builder points calculations. However, since I’ve read through everyone’s posts, I think I may reconsider and only count my veggies and fruits above 5 servings daily. That being said, I’ve lost 13.8 pounds since the introduction of the PointsPlus program. It has definitely guided me to eat healthier and make smarter choices. While I’m far from perfect, I see a big difference in my selection of foods.

    Thanks for the posing the question and for all the insights from your readers.

  • http://thisisnoweightolive.blogspot.com/ Robyn

    I just started the new PointsPlus program this week and I love it, personally. About the twinkies and the salad… it actually does not surprise me that they are the same amount of points. I would hope that most people have common sense enough to know that when faced with the decision of eating a healthy salad full of nutritious ingredients or a twinkie, they would choose the salad, especially if they are hungry. The salad sounds like it’s very filling, so I would not just have it for a snack; it would be my meal most likely, whereas the twinkie would not hold me for a full meal (obviously). That being said, a small snack being 8 PointsPlus is not very ideal, even if they did increase the total for the day. You bring up many good points Roni, and it’s a shame WW couldn’t answer it a little clearer. I hope you find what you’re looking for when you start your journey post-baby!

  • Andres

    If you look at the getting started book, comparing the 2 breakfast. The cressont & ham eggs n toast r the same calories, only 1 ppv different. PP is nudging u towards food higher in protein n fiber. They will keep u fuller longer, which will show at the scale with a weight loss edge.

  • http://belladoesprettylady.blogspot.com Bella

    I just wouldn’t count them, it doesn’t make sense to. I understand for recipes in the magazine but when you are cooking at home and you know what you are putting in your recipes and how much of each ingredient you are eating i think its safe to not count the fruit and veggies, especially in a salad

  • s

    i have been counting all fruits and veggies as 0 regardless of whether or not i include them in recipes. my weight has actually decreased. then again, i’m also used to following the old plan, so i mostly only use fruit as snacks, oatmeal toppers, etc. even the weeks where i went a little overboard on dates (my current fruit obsession) i still maintained. IMO those are calories well-’spent’ compared to multiple spoonfuls of [favorite indulgence here; nutella for me. learned about the caloric/volumetric tradeoff the hard way this week, haha].

  • s

    oh, and a lot of times when i do the math for recipes with free fruits/veggies (smoothies for example) the points come out really similarly, maybe off by 1 or 2. so generally, i don’t worry about it too much.

  • s

    oops, i meant that the WWPP come out really similarly to the old program (momentum)

  • Renee

    Sheesh, Jen~ is it that time of the month?? What a snarky answer.

  • Renee

    Love ya, Roni!

  • jen

    renee….you are mistaken. it is not “that time of the month” for me and my answer was not snarky. your comment about me only paints a picture of the kind of person you are…judgmental.
    i must be mistaken, but i thought that one was free to express their thoughts here. i did not that this was a forum to be chastised.

  • http://ronisweigh.com roni

    No need for snark on either side. I don’t want to turn this into a boxing match. So far everyone’s answers have given me some AWESOME insights and I’m already feeling better about how I’ll approach tracking when I hop back in. That was the real point to my post in the first place.

  • Debbie

    Roni, I’m very happy that you brought this up. I’ve been struggling with the new WW plan as well, and quite frankly I don’t like it. I miss not having a slide ruler to calculate my Points and what about ALL of the old WW recipe books that I own? Now I have to recalculate everthing, and I just don’t have the time or motivation to do it. What I’ve always liked about WW is that it was no-brainer and always fit into my busy schedule, but unfortunately it’s not like that anymore. At the end of the day, I know that a piece of fruit is better than a Twinkie so I’ll just use my common sense and plug away at the old plan for now.

  • Trish

    All calories add up. the new program is showing us more than the others that not all calories are equal but they are there. Nutrition is better than empty calories.
    With your salad I would only count the nuts. But if you were making a recipe where the fruit or veggie becomes a part of a higher calorie casserole than I would definetly add the fruit or veggie points. But as far as I see it you are still just making a salad.

    Some people are making pies and not thinking they need to count the fruit, but that changes the fruit from something wholesome to something with little redeeming value nutritionally.

    A twinkie having similar stats as the salad isn’t weight watchers fault, that’s nature. But we are learning that the nutritional density is different and we should choose the healthier one.

  • http://ajourneytothin.blogspot.com/ Alissa

    I’ve had the same questions and just came to the conclusion that I will not count fruits and veggies in my recipes. It works for me and I’m eating healthier that way- but I might not choose my “green smoothie” for 5 points, which is what it comes out to in the recipe builder. But if I count each ingredient separately it’s 1 point- and I will definitely eat all of those fruits and veggies instead of some other 5 point snack.

  • Lesa

    Plain and simple, I went back to Momentum. My momentum pts were 19 and PP 29. I calculated a normal day both ways – I was over by a few on Momentum which was okay because I had weeklies/ap’s avalable; yet way under on PP! Had I kept eati…ng to reach my 29 PP, gosh only knows how much it would’ve put me over Momentum-style. No wonder I gained the first (and only) 4 weeks on PP. I love WW but am having a hard time with being loyal (thanks Sparkpeople). I read on Spark that runners need 50% carbs and I wonder how that plays into PP. I could eat plenty on Momentum and still lose…..and I loved it – got to eat all the time and never felt like I was dieting. Got to goal on Momentum – 173 to 142; I’m 5’9″. Gained 10 post Disney cruise so back to ‘losing’ mode — 5 lbs from goal when they changed plans.). Good luck is all I can say.

    and just saw this on a WW board regarding recipe builder:
    taken from a member…..

    Case in point: I just input the old Core Taco Soup recipe, and it yielded 4 pts. in the tracker. When I looked up to question it, I found this on the WW site: …”At this time, the Recipe Builder cannot be used to build recipes that work with the Simply Filling technique. If you’d like to track them accurately, we suggest quick-adding recipes to your POINTS Tracker with 0 POINTS values, or putting in the recipe manually if you would like to see the individual ingredients.” So much for paying every month to use the online Tracker!

    Hmmmm…..looks like WW has some work to do about the recipe builder. I knew Momentum backwards and forwards and could easily calculate points for recipes, only needing the builder occasionally. When I tried PP, calculating recipes was a bear to deal with

  • Noelle

    I tried the new program and dropped out (not because of the program, I just don’t think dieting is for me!). But something the leader told me was that fruit and vegetable points are only free up to 5 servings a day, after that they should be counted. In that case, some recipes you should count the points if you’ve already eaten your 5.

  • jen

    roni….dont accuse me of snarking which you did in your last post. i am also not in any “boxing” match.

    i am well aware of what your post was asking and i offered my thoughts…i dont appreciate judgement by anyone when doing so.

  • Emily F

    I don’t count any of the fruits or veggies (I calculate recipes myself- I don’t have the online tools). I do this because I am trying to make F&V a priority in my eating and making them free, even in recipes, is an incentive to eat/cook with them instead of something else. Even when at goal weight (I am a lifetime member- 9 years- but had gained 10 lbs last year that need to go), I have had a cholesterol problem (average of 227 for the last few years & with heart disease in my family, that’s too high). After a couple of months on PointsPlus, plus an increase in my exercise (added 1-2 days a week), my cholesterol is now at 181 (the lowest I ever have had measured). This tells me that this style of eating is better for me. I definitely can get carried away on the fruit, and my weight loss slows a little those weeks, but I feel like this is getting me better prepared for a healthy long-term eating style.

  • Katie

    There is not a 5 serving limit on fruits and veggies! 5 servings is a MINIMUM. Now, if you eat a lot of fruit you may need to start counting points above a certain number of servings or just eat fewer of your weekly points. Let your weight loss be your guide!

  • http://ronisweigh.com roni

    Jen – I didn’t accuse anyone of anything. I used the term that was used in the thread to make a joke and bring the comments back on point. I have no idea why you are getting so defensive. You left your opinion, now let the comments go back to the original purpose. That’s why I restated my question in my comment. It wasn’t aimed at you, it was to wrap up the side bar talk and put an end to any accusations and off topic comments like Renee’s.

  • http://blog.mcintyresite.com Rose McIntyre

    Roni, Technically, your salad isn’t really a recipe according to the recipe builder. It’s something you threw together. If it served more than one, the points plus would go down. I think the recipe builder is for something that involves more ingredients than fruit, veggies, and walnuts. I would totally input them one by one in the tracker, only counting the walnuts.

    But now it makes sense that something that a Fruit Cup at Chick Fil A (which consists of only fruit and I would totally say it was 0 points) shows up at 2 points in the tracker. Supposedly it’s not taking calories into account (and the recipes in the WW magazine do not put all the nutritional info anymore, just he Points Plus), it is very obvious that calories are some how factored into something if they feel they need to post all that information. Regardless, if you haven’t added anything to add points to your fruit, then the recipe builder is incorrect.

  • http://ronisweigh.com roni

    Rose – Your comment and a few others have made me realize that. I’ve been thinking of the term “recipe” all wrong. I think that may be my problem! I never, once thought of entering them as a “meal” — I didn’t use etools when I lost the first time so I’m still learning.

  • Jessica

    I wonder, if when figuring the value of, say, the Chik Fil A fruit cup, the calories given in the nutrition info is used. Not the mere fact that it IS fruit, (and only fruit).
    Now, on the “old” plan, a serving of Fiber One cereal came to 0 Points. 0 times 0= 0. In the 3rd grade, yes! BUT! if one takes each bit of info ( calories, fiber, etc.) and multiplies by 2, it comes out to 3Points. A far cry from zero! Me thinks this is what goes on with the recipie builder. It doesn’t take into account WHAT you are using, but rather the number value of it’s nutrition info. I think someone mentioned it earlier. ( Good Lord, will someone tell me if I made ANY sense?! I think I just confused myself! lol)

  • http://www.losinginthecity.com cassie

    reading all the comments is making me nervous about the PP program. i am a huge advocate of the old program. I just had a baby in January and tomorrow morning i am actually going to register at Weight Watchers.. i really hope it’s not a huge difference from the old program.. wish me luck :-)

  • Beth

    Did some playing around. Found the nutrition info of an apple, orange and bannana. The apple and orange were the old points value. The bannana was 5 points. Some things don’t make sense. A regular potatoe is less points than a sweet potatoe.

  • Michelle

    I am very disappointed in the response that WW gave you to your question. I also sent them an email with a couple questions that just didn’t make sense to me and I also got a very form letter response that really didn’t answer anything I had asked. Therefore, unfortunately, I decided to quit WW. If they can’t take the time to answer our questions thoroughly, they are not going to get my money. I will be very curious as to what you think after the baby and when you start attending the meetings again. I will stay tuned!!! :)

  • http://shellis-sentiments.com Shelli

    I’m new to your blog. Hi!

    I didn’t read through all of your comments (54 at this posting!) so I don’t know if you got your answer, but here’s my take. I just count the individual ingredients as individual. I think that’s more real to the PointsPlus program. Like they say, you aren’t going to become obese, or stay obese, eating fruits and vegetables. It’s more likely you would if you are eating only Twinkies because of how your body uses the nutrition. The fruit salad is made out of complex carbohydrates, where the Twinkie is composed of simple carbohydrates. It’s about how your body metabolizes the food. It takes more energy for your body (therefore actually burning calories) to use the fruit than it does to use the Twinkie. That’s my take.

    I have a question, since I’m new to your blog, how are you a WW insider?

  • http://www.theflabfightingfairy.com Trishg

    To count or not to count. I would not count the fruit just count the walnuts and dressing. If I make a salad for lunch I enter the items on my tracker indvidually, fruits and veggies as zero .

    If my daily consumption is over 5 servings. I start counting the free items as points.

  • Rachel

    Wow! After reading all this, can I just say that I’m glad I count calories, lol. By the way, please don’t give calorie-counting a bad rap (not sure who the poster was). The concept is no different than points – I want to get the best bargain for my “calorie buck”, so I do naturally choose lots of veggies, fruit, lean protein, and fiber. ; ) After 6 months of weight loss and 6 months of maintenance, I am really good at judging by the total calories, size, etc…, if I’m getting a good deal, or not. ; ) I don’t want to start another debate, though, lol. WW has a great reputation! In fact, I’m trying to talk my parents into joining WW b/c they have been trying to lose weight, and I think they need the structure and support of a community. ; ) BTW, I do count my fruit calories; I just eat lots! And, Roni, thank you for introducing me to green smoothies! I am totally addicted!!!

  • http://ronisweigh.com roni

    Shelli – It’s hard to say “how” I’ve been weight loss blogging for more than 6 years and am a lifetime Weight Watchers member. I’ve worked with Weight Watchers a few times in the past and when they started an insider program they reached out to me. Pro-blogging is still a very strange, unknown career path. As I like to say we are in the wild west stage. ;)

  • jerri

    Hi, Roni. I just want to say I am so glad that I found your blog. Please forgive me if I ramble on but I am sitting here crying as I write this. I just started back on WW after becoming a lifetime member in 1999. I had a similar body image as you had growing up. I lost 60 lbs. in ’98, right before I got married. I kept it off until I had my first son in ’00 and then followed WW again to get back to my pre-pregnancy weight. I kept it off again until I had my second son in ’03 and then lost back down to within 10 lbs. of my goal weight by early ’04. Then, because of the stress of being a wife, mom, and working FT, I started gaining gradually until I was up to 178 by ’06 and then my all-time high of 237.5 in November ’10. I weighed about 215 on the day I gave birth to each of my sons and now here I am at 20 lbs. above that without having a pregnancy to blame it on. I just got so sick of feeling bad about myself. I am sick of making myself sick with food! I AM A BINGE EATER!!!

    I started back on WW online last Monday and had my first weigh-in this morning. I am down 4.5 lbs as of this morning and am happy, but somehow scared at the same time. Scared that I will go back to my old habits, scared that I will eat something that makes me feel guilty and then just keep eating because of the guilt, scared I will fail.

    Your story touched me when not many do. I’m so happy I found you by way of Danica. I will follow your blog and continue to use your story as my inspiration. I have done it before, I know I can do it again. I just have to feel worthy of receiving health and feeling beautiful again. Thanks so much for sharing.

    Jerri

  • laine

    I don’t count the fruit or veggies in recipes, and I’m losing about a pound a week. The things I put into recipe builder are multiserving receipes like soups and casseroles, not salads, smoothies or stir fries.

  • Katie

    Rachel – you may have been talking about my post. I wasn’t dogging on calorie counting :) just pointing out that there are trade-offs with any weight loss program, so you just have to go with whatever works for you! I’ve thought about switching to calorie counting at time because of my math OCD, but as long as WW works for me I’m going to stick with it.

  • Melissa

    I wondered if anyone else was not crazy about the new plan. I’ve been following the old plan for years, lost weight, kept it off and I’m so thankful for WW for teaching me how to do it. If it’s not broke don’t fix it. I tried the new plan and i think i’m sticking with the old plan, cause I know it inside and out and I know it works:)

  • http://www.jensrealia.typepad.com Jennifer

    I am a big fan of WeightWatchers, and I like the new program for its focus on lifestyle and “clean eating.”

    However, the recipe builder seems buggy, and I’ve never got a clear answer from any WeightWatchers people (like you) to explain why, for example, a dish like ratatolle, with two tsp olive oil (2 pts), a can of salt free diced tomatoes (0 pts), three zucchini (0 pts), one onion (0 pts), one green pepper (0 pts) adds up to 9 pts. The only seemingly consistent message is “use your best judgement.”

    My best judgement tells me that the recipe builder is faulty. Or maybe such a tool is not possible given the way points plus works?

  • http://www.jensrealia.typepad.com Jennifer

    Just to clarify something I said above, about not getting clarity from WeightWatchers people – when I said “like you” I wasn’t implying that YOU were one of the WeightWatchers people I wasn’t getting clarity from! I meant that you had said you hadn’t got clarity either! :-)

  • Deb

    Jerri- Wow, your story and mine are so similar, except I never had kids. I’ve been unhappy for over ten years since I lost all the weight and then gained DOUBLE the amount back. I just wanted to say that because of lovely, sharing people like Danica and Roni, we CAN do this!
    XXOO

  • http://adayinmynyc.com Patty

    Very interesting and even more so their response…I can see where they are coming from but still I’m not 100% sold on their reply.

  • Erin

    I asked a similar question about the zero/one point vegetable soups and got a very similar answer. For now I am counting the soups as 0 points unless I eat more than two cups of soup. If I stop losing weight then I will do the good thing and count each cup of vegetable soup as 1 point plus. Until then, I say don’t enter the zero point foods in to your recipe calculations and see what happens on the scale.

  • Cindy

    Wow I am glad I am not the only one who is confused about the new points plus plan and how to count the fruit and vegetables . I drink a green smoothie everyday. I make it with a green leafy vegetable, add usually a banana and another fruit and a cup of almond milk. Up until today I was just counting the almond milk as the fruits and vegetables are supposed to be free. Well when I questioned this method over at DWLZ they told me to put it in the recipe builder and it came to a whopping 8 points! This make no sense to me. If I sat down and ate a bowl of spinach, an orange, a banana and a cup of almond milk I would only count the almond milk so what would th differenc be if we add them all together in a blender? Seems logical I would still only count the almond milk. For now I will continue to count only the almond milk. The smoothies are a good source of nutrition and I am getting a good portion of my daily fruits and vegetables. If fruits and vegetables are free then they should be so no matter how you consume them.

  • http://www.stratsgarden.blogspot.com Laura

    It seems that the new Points Plus wasn’t planned out to well – it was like they tried to rush it or something. Calculators are hard to come by, the recipe builder is buggy…even their online database doesn’t always have the correct pts. Lots of things need fixed. I was told by another to use the recipe builder for actually recipes that have multiple servings; for single servings just list all the ingredients as single entries on the tracker and save it as a meal.

  • Michelle

    Here are my two bits! For me I love the new program. I usually (if not always) cook my own meals and eat very few processed foods. I always pulled my hair out at people who didn’t want to eat bananas because they were so high in points….I too would shy away from my favorite fruit because they were higher in points (I like really big bananas!) If I am eating a fruit or veggie it more of its natural state I do not count it in the recipe. I tend to use a “meal approach”. If I am altering its state like say in a smoothie where I am also adding other ingredients that are not free such as dairy I count the points as a recipe rather than a meal.

    For recipes where I have mostly vegetables and add a little oil (or nuts) I only count the non-vegetable items.

    I think that the most important thing is to see how your body responds. I believe that I am following the program and I have lost all of my post baby weight since December. I use my weekly’s but not my exercise. It seems to work for me. If I start gaining or can’t lose then maybe I need to re-evaluate how I am using my fruits and veggies.

    I also went back to look over my daily totals and I average 34 points per day and eat an average of 5 fruits and 4-5 veggies per day. This is based on what WW considers a normal serving.

  • Grace

    I’ve just started WW. I’ve known people on the old WW and it seemed really confusing to me. This new PP method is very easy. For me, I do not count ANY free items, even if included in a recipe. I find the nutritional value of the items that are not free, figure out the points based on how much (t, T, c, etc.) of the non-free items, add those points together, then divide by serving. I did this with a pancake recipe I have (which, by the way, is way yummy with lots of blueberries), and come up with three points per pancake. Not bad if you ask me. And I am a total veg/fruit addict — I eat way more than any meat and way more than the 5 recommended servings per day. I’ve been on WW since Jan 19, 2011 and have lost over 12 lbs. to date. So, my take on the figuring points — don’t count the 0 value foods, just the others, even with figuring multiple servings.

  • http://www.yellowdoorstop.com Natalie

    I just joined WW a few days ago online for the first time, after trying to do it myself with a WW book that my mom got a few years back…

    I have to say that my start with Points Plus has been a lot smoother and far easier to follow than the old plan. I like that I can eat as many fruits and veggies as I want, and at the end of the day (when my points are all gone) I find myself reaching for produce instead of being hungry like I would be on the other plan. I probably will count fruits as 1 point if I eat over 5 servings of fruit.

    So far, find that the Points Plus plan encourages wholesome eating that is sustainable after weight loss moreso than the other plan did.

    Having said that, I haven’t used the recipe builder yet. I’m sure there are a few glitches to iron out but overall PP is good.

  • Erin Moore

    Wow, just had the same experience and am kind of put off by WW, but certainly not giving up. I was having a need for chocolate so decided to drizzle a small amount of Hershey’s chocolate syrup over my banana and yogurt which would have been about 5 Points Plus, but the recipe builder calculates it to be 9 Points Plus! What?! That doesn’t add up and it’s very frustrating. How can one cup of low fat yogurt (4 pts), plus a banana (o pts), plus a drizzle of chocolate (1pt) equal 9 points? Something stinks here Weight Watchers!

  • Kurt

    I’ll chime in here, too. I’ve been confused by this situation as well and it’s been very frustrating and stressful. I’ll have an idea for a recipe that in individual ingredients shouldn’t be more than 2-3 points, but ends up being 8-10 points in the recipe builder. That’s practically a whole meals worth of points!!

    In some cases I’ve put the recipe together as a meal, but that seems like cheating. From what I’m reading here, I guess it’s not cheating, it’s just that WW system isn’t put together very well.

    I started on the old system and was doing great, loosing about a pound a week. Since the shift to the PointsPlus system I’ve barely lost any weight. It’s extremely frustrating that we were all just forced onto a new system, especially when the old system was working just fine. Add to that the added time and stress of relearning the system / food values, having to re-enter all the saved foods, and then the strange points from the recipe builder…Ugh! I’m about ready to drop WW altogether.

  • http://www.nmburlesonweightloss.blogspot.com Natalia

    I don’t think that WW does a very good job of explaining the situation.

    Bottom line…fruits (fresh and no sugar added) and most veggies are 0 points. Unfortunately when you put things into the recipe builder it goes off of nutritional information ONLY. It doesn’t distinguish between a banana or a doughnut. It ONLY goes based on the nutritional break down of the food, so if you put the food in the recipe builder, and it has enough fat, fiber, protein and carbs, to generate points, it WILL give it a point value. It won’t say, OK this is a banana and that’s 0 points… So you should only put in foods that you know have points value to them or do what other people have suggested and put it in as a meal and save as a favorite so you don’t have to re-enter it every time.

    I hope I explained that so it made sense and if someone already explained it this way sorry to repeat….I didn’t read all the comments. :)

    It is confusing!

  • Elizabeth

    I lost 98 lbs on the old points system and loved it. I LOVE the concept of the points plus program. I can’t stand the calculator, not having a slide points calculator and the fact that all my own personal recipes now have to be recalculated for pts. I want to fully embrace the points plus program but I am struggling. Being a mother of two girls and working part-time, its difficult to embrace having to relearn the system although I think it would be beneficial. I feel my time more importantly needs to be spent exercising and squeezing in other aspects of an active lifestyle!

  • Amber

    Roni, just found your website and love it! I have been listening to your podcasts too ( on the elliptical ;O) . I think that counting any fruits and veggies about 5 is a good idea. ( I don’t know why my leader never said this) I actually started counting calories as well as pointsplus to counter balance the free fruits/veg thing. Points plus are still my main source of tracking, but I’m going to count my zeros above 5. P.S. I’ve lost 25 lbs in 3 1/2 months on this new program. I really do love it.

  • amy

    I also don’t add the free vegetables to my recipes. Adding a cup of spinach raises the point value by one. Seems a bit drastic to me. Should I just omit the spinach to stay on point? Same with artichoke hearts. If they’re added in quantity as just a food, they remain a 0 point food, if you add them to a recipe, the points value really jumps. It would be nice if WW was a bit more consistent and definitive so it doesn’t feel like “cheating” when in reality I’m just trying to do the right thing and eat healthy.

  • Calista

    Roni, Thank you for diving into this topic. I have found the “recipe builder” to an extremely frustrating tool. In fact, it’s downright demotivating if you are following the Points Plus program. I entered the same recipe into Tracker and the Recipe Builder . . . and, I am not kidding you, the points in Recipe Builder were double those in Tracker!! Double. Here’s an example: 2 cups fat free chicken broth equals 0 points in Tracker and 2 points in Recipe Builder. Also, where to the extra points come from? Yes, I read WW’s explanation as well as the feedback that you received. Makes no sense at all. WW should hire some programmers to figure out how to distinguish fruits and vegetables from other foods in Recipe Builder. Frankly, I think they’ve taken the “cheap” route. I’m feeling a little cheated. I had to change everything, but WW got to roll out a new program without modifying their backroom operations to meet the new requirements. This is not helpful to the customer. My solution: Enter my “recipe” into the Tracker and then save as a meal. I’m still frustrated, but by using this method, I am not penalized for eating more vegetables and fat free broth.

  • TamaraD

    Almost a year after you went through this thought process, I’ve had the same! Yesterday I added the ingredients from my smoothie (ALL fruit) and came up with a high PP number. A search on google and I found my way here. Because I feel like I am struggling with the last bit of weight loss (11 lbs to go), I’ve decided to try tracking most of my fruits and vegetables in recipe builder. I’ll do it for a week or two and see if it helps.

    Thanks for your blog.
    Tamara

  • Karen

    Thanks for this post. I joined WW a week ago and have already lost two pounds. I like the program a lot so far.

    …Except for the recipe builder!! In the past 3 days, I started using it and trusted the resulting points values. This evening, I started feeling extremely hungry, but didn’t have many points left for dinner. I was suspicious because I had had a fairly light day full of fruits and veggies. I found this post and then re-evaluated the points for my recipes They were assigned as much as 4 points more per serving than they would have been if listed separately!

    I don’t think I will use this tool anymore. It kind of sabotages our efforts and was probably the result of some kind of issue carried over from the transition to points plus.

    Thanks again!

  • Pam

    I have just cancelled my subscription to WW online. As a weight watcher of many years and having lost 61 pounds on the old system I cannot lose one pound on the new Points Plus. It makes no sense to me or the replies I have had from WW re recipes involving “free” foods. So after struggling with it for over a year. I finally went back to my old books and started counting everything including fruits. I am now on track and losing again. I,needed to lose 10 pounds to get back to Lifetime and thankfully I am finally getting there. Weight watchers need to re-evalue this new system and stop taking money from people with this stupid new system.

  • Judy

    I’ve been on WW Online for 2 months. Yesterday I used the recipe builder for a salad recipe. The ingredients added up to 4 points. The recipe builder DOUBLED the points to 8! It’s basically a cabbage salad with 2 oz of chicken, half an apple, scallions, grated carrot, sesame seeds and one teaspoon of oil mixed with vinnegar and soy sauce. I will not renew my program with WW. I’m a logical person, and whatever program I’m on has to make logical sense to me. WW did before, on the old program, but it doesn’t now. I’m VERY disappointed.

  • Brenna Jennings

    I was lifetime just as the plan switched to Points Plus. It seems to me that the program was purposely complicated so that non-paying folks could’t simply do the calculations in their heads, and boosting sales for things like online tools and calculators etc. Like a few have said here, I didn’t have the time or desire to re-learn a new, more complex calculation. I still do “old points” in my head but I don’t like not feeling like I have WW support now because I don’t want to adopt the new PP.

  • Evan

    I know this post is old, but I just found it on a google search.

    My wife put a delicious roast brussels sprouts recipe in the builder (brussels sprouts, dried cranberries, garlic, olive oil) and it comes out to 7 points per serving.

    However, inserted separately into the point tracker, I calculated only about 4 points.

    I’m really confused about this. I mean, can’t they just answer the question: are fruits and vegetables actually 0 points or not?

  • http://everydaydivasays.com stephanie hall wedan

    I found this blog by doing a Google search because I wasn’t getting the help I needed on the WW sight. This is my first week on WW. I have lost 3 pounds. I might have had a better weigh-in if I’d used my bonus points earlier in the week — I only used half of them! — but I splurged on the last night of the week. So I’m learning. I have been frustrated by this same thing. I came up with a yummy dessert that is filling. It involves sugar free chocolate pudding, a sliced banana, fat free reddi wip, and (optional) a few ritz crackers crumbled on the bottom and/or top. I put it in the recipe builder, and it’s 6 points. If I put the items separately on the roster, it adds up to 2 or 4 depending on the crackers. Now, if I ate all those things in succession, 5 minutes apart, it’s not a recipe, it’s more like a meal with different courses, and I wouldn’t count the banana. I’m already eating a much higher percentage of fresh fruits and fresh or grilled veggies, and my hunger is diminishing and I’m losing weight. So after poking around and reading this post and its comments, and thinking it through, I’ve decided not to build recipes and just enter the individual foods.

  • Patience

    I tend to count the free foods if I’m using them in a recipe but if I am just eating the food on it’s own I don’t

  • krystle

    As a side note and I am not really sure if this has been explained. Recipes calculate the total amount of fiber, fat, carbohydrates, and protein into the points plus value, so while singularly the grape fruits carb and fiber values calculate it as free when combined with the values of all the other carbs, and fiber plus fat and protein you get a higher value for the total recipe.

  • Laura

    I recently rejoined WW under the new system and do like having the 0-point fruits and veggies. It’s helped me add plenty of fresh produce to my daily diet. However, after entering several things into Recipe Builder, I came across the same problem as the rest of you. When do they count, when do they not? Why is it 3 points as a meal but 6 as a recipe? (Hence my googling and stumbling upon this blog.) My general rule of thumb now: If I go above 5 servings of fruit/veg per day, I’ll add 1 point per each additional serving. If I’m throwing things together in a salad or meal in their original state, I count those fruits/veg as free. If I’m making a recipe where the original fruit/veg is no longer “identifiable” (ie: in a smoothie, baked into a treat, added into soup, pureed, etc.), then I will add those to Recipe Builder and count accordingly. It’s my guess that this is what WW is trying to do, but they’ve done a poor job conveying this message. Regardless, it’s a great plan that allows for a flexibility and variety and teaches you the healthy way to eat. They just need to work out some of the kinks.

  • Current WW sister

    I just wanted to try and clarify some of the questions regarding the new points plus system. If you use a recipe and the fruits and vegetables are left in their natural state i.e, cut, chop, raw, it counts for 0 points plus. If you puree it, cook it, use it in a smoothie or take it out of its natural state, you have to count them. It was explained to me (I am sure a certified nutritionist can answer this better) that you are no longer allowing your body to do the work once the fruits & vegetables are pureed or cooked. it has already been prepared.

  • Dana

    I’m not surprised that WW did this. WW doesn’t want too many people to be at goal; i.e. lifetime members. THEY DON’T PAY FOR IT ANYMORE. The slower your weight loss, the more money you spend on WW online, going to meetings, buying those little 2-point candy bars, etc. The USDA has a tool called SUPERTRACKER. You can build your recipe, keep track of your weight loss progress, etc, AND IT WON’T COST YOU A RED CENT!!!!!!

    Check it out!!

    https://www.supertracker.usda.gov/default.aspx

  • WW lifetime

    WW lifetime member for several years. I bought a vitamix and started juicing. The smooothies should tecnically be 0 points but I guess the real proof will come at weigh in this Saturday after a week of juicing. I wished WW would be more clear on this. I would alter my smoothies based on what is considered low in points. Just a side note, when I first started points plus I was eating several bananas a day because they were 0 points and gained six pounds! Points plus could definitely be revised.

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